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Thread: Who really made the first lilac bulldog?

  1. #13
    Bulldog Vet in Training anatess's Avatar
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    Default Re: Who really made the first lilac bulldog?

    So... here I am again... sticking my neck out.

    I am of a different opinion - not too different, but different nonetheless. It comes from owning Ball Pythons that come in such varied colorations that I have 6 of them in different colors to match the room decor. And then I have the African rats that also come in such cute colors that I spent a good year trying to produce a specific color that I really like.

    So, in dogs... a dog's color does not an unhealthy dog make. Okay, I was trying to sound cool. Hah! What I'm trying to say is - the color of a dog is not a direct indication of its health nor breeder reputation. I, for one, enjoys specific coloration - like, I got this cool yellow with thin black striped ball python that looks like candy. He's the favorite snake in show and tells because he looks so pretty that people forget their way-too-common-phobia of snakes. And when I was looking for my dog, I specifically chose a bichon frise not only for his temperament but also for his stunning white cotton-like fur. And when I got my very first dog - a German Shepherd - I picked a red one instead of a tan one because it is much better looking. So yes, I'm sure y'all are familiar with this habit of ours of choosing Brindle bullies over white and tan bullies... nothing really wrong with that.

    But then - here comes AKC with the "breed standard". Does that mean non-standard colors are bad dogs because AKC won't take them in dog shows? Not necessarily. You can even register a non-standard color if the litter is registered. Yes, the AKC will probably inspect the dog to make sure it is really an english bulldog and not a dalmatian or something...

    But, it is very true that a lot of specific dog colors came about by certain levels of line-breeding/in-breeding to produce that particular color. So that, if the initial breed line had hereditary health issues then that health problem can get compounded as they in-breed to achieve a specific coloration. So that, you could possibly end up with the same issue as the White Doberman. But, if you're familiar with the White Doberman history, it is good to note that the AKC registered Padulas Queen Shebah (the first white dobie) because she is a purebreed descended from 2 black-and-rust AKC dobies. The owner and breeder of Shebah decided to line-breed to get another white doberman not knowing the ramifications. It took the AKC about 5 years to finally get the color genetic tested and that's when they found problems with the breed. They found that the extremely reduced melanocytes that produce the white dobie is also the cause for its photosensitivity and other health issues so that a white dobie generally live a shorter lifespan than the other dobie colors and they are generally difficult to keep healthy. So that the Doberman Pinscher Club of America took it upon themselves to take steps to minimize the breeding of white dobies.

    This is not the same case with Lilac Bulldogs, though, I don't think. At least, I don't know of any genetic testing done on lilacs that determined that they are genetically inferior to other english bulldog colors. Although, yes, that would also mean, if there are problems with the color, nobody as yet found out about it. But, if I want a lilac bulldog, does that mean I'm a bad mama? Or, if I'm a breeder and I breed lilac bulldogs, does that make me a bad breeder?

    Now, if you really think about it and be honest with ourselves, English Bulldogs are almost as problematic as a White Doberman. So, if we are going to say, we are only going to breed dogs that are going to be healthy dogs, then we shouldn't breed English Bulldogs altogether.

    Now, about paying 8500 for a specific color... I know of a guy who paid $15,000 for a specific ball python coloration. Now, the interesting thing about that is you can get the standard jungle ball python color for $25! And the ball python don't act any different - I mean, the $15,000 snake still has the same smelly poop, ya know? But, that's really no different than me paying $400 for the yellow/black stipe color... when I can just get the regular color for $25. It's pretty, and it's worth $400 to me. And if I was the ball python breeder and somebody wants to buy my snake for $15,000 why should I say no? I mean, I made sure that the snake is healthy and would be a quality pet, and somebody is willing to pay $15,000 for that specific color (that it took me 6 years to produce), why not? - that $15000 could be the difference between sending my kids to the crappy inner-city public school or getting them quality education somewhere else and hopefully get them out of the gheto. Does that make me greedy?

    But, on the same token, breeders of ill-repute wouldn't mind breeding out health-problem-dogs just to get that extra buck out of a rare color... so yeah, it's something to think about. But then, this goes for any color bulldog. One should research a breeder before getting dogs from them...

    Okay, just my thoughts on the matter...
    Last edited by anatess; 09-08-2011 at 06:34 PM.

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    Pet Sitter mendomama's Avatar
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    Default Re: Who really made the first lilac bulldog?

    Wow! Anatess, That's a mouthful. Thank you. I was feeling a little down after all that negative feed back. I totally agree with you. However I do wonder about the reputations of these breeders, they do all clam the same thing. I also wonder about colors that have not yet made AKC standard. The color has to made and gone around a few times before the AKC will accept it as a new color, right?? So why are all you people so down on the rare colors?? They are unique, however I do agree that the amount of $$$ they are asking is a little insane. But Anatees did make a point, if a specific line takes 6 years to produce and it is some of the first, then why not get what you can for them.....

    As for me, I have not yet made up my mind weather lilac is bad or not

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    Default Re: Who really made the first lilac bulldog?

    Ohhhh..I'm sorry..I didn't mean to be negative! And I'm sure no one else would want you to feel bad! We just were giving opinions..mostly about the people who breed without caring about the standards and most likely care about the $$$$. In the end..it's your decision and I'm certain you will make the right one for you...and after all..it's your business.

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    All I can add since I know nothing about lilac, is that black is a dominant color trait. So if the standards accept breeding the color black into EB's, eventually all bulldogs will carry the gene and become a prominently dark colored breed and would lose its magnificent blend of color variations. So this is why the standard should be followed. I am not sure about brown noses, blue eyes, ect. Don't quote me, but this is what I have heard from many AKC standard breeders.

    I do not frown upon anyone wanting any of them, they are beautiful!! They are bullies, after all. I do however question the breeders who purposefully try to breed "rare" instead of standard, because it usually has nothing to do with anything but asking for a high price.

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    Default Re: Who really made the first lilac bulldog?

    Quote Originally Posted by desertskybulldogs View Post
    All I can add since I know nothing about lilac, is that black is a dominant color trait. So if the standards accept breeding the color black into EB's, eventually all bulldogs will carry the gene and become a prominently dark colored breed and would lose its magnificent blend of color variations. So this is why the standard should be followed. I am not sure about brown noses, blue eyes, ect. Don't quote me, but this is what I have heard from many AKC standard breeders.

    I do not frown upon anyone wanting any of them, they are beautiful!! They are bullies, after all. I do however question the breeders who purposefully try to breed "rare" instead of standard, because it usually has nothing to do with anything but asking for a high price.
    AGREED!!!!!!!!

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    Default Re: Who really made the first lilac bulldog?

    I have to say that I am with @desertskybulldogs on this BUT my intention was not to make anyone feel bad! Your baby is sweet and you are here so that means you care about her health and well being so I think your heart is in the right place....plus opinions are like A&% Ho*&^, everyone has one! lol

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    Default Re: Who really made the first lilac bulldog?

    I like that everyone on this forum is considerate of others and I love all bullies no matter what their bloodline or "standard" features. My Hitchy is far from "standard". BUT and I say this, with all the conviction I have.....WE have messed with this breed to the point that almost all bullies have some joint,eye, ear, skin or allergy issue in its lifetime. Its IS humans who have bred this breed to be dependent on us for procreation. It is humans that keep "toying" with these wonderful creatures to gain a profit and I am beyond sick of it!! I am not against breeders. I AM against people who use these magnificent, loving dogs. I spend my life saving the "throw away" bullies that people create and I am so disappointed that anyone would support anyone who continues to do this irresponsible breeding! If you dont understand what I mean...try volunteering for a bullie rescue or shelter. Many rescue/shelter bullies are not the Hitchy's of the world..they are the ones people pay $3,000+ for then cant care for because of all the issues bullies have. Please think about what you are supporting.
    Last edited by NikkiSchoolcraft; 09-10-2011 at 11:52 PM.
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    Default Re: Who really made the first lilac bulldog?

    Quote Originally Posted by NikkiSchoolcraft View Post
    I like that everyone on this forum is considerate of others and I love all bullies no matter what their bloodline or "standard" features. BUT and I say this, with all the conviction I have.....WE have messed with this breed to the point that almost all bullies have some joint, skin or allergy issue in its lifetime. Its IS humans who have breed this breed to be dependent on us for procreation. It is humans that keep "toying" with these wonderful creatures to gain a profit and I am beyond sick of it! I am not against breeders. I AM against people who use these magnificent, loving dogs. I spend my life saving the "throw away" bullies that people create and I am so disappointed that anyone would support anyone who continues to do this irresponsible breeding! If you dont understand what I mean...try volunteering for a bullie rescue or shelter.
    .....Well Said

  9. #21
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    Default Re: Who really made the first lilac bulldog?

    Quote Originally Posted by NikkiSchoolcraft View Post
    I like that everyone on this forum is considerate of others and I love all bullies no matter what their bloodline or "standard" features. My Hitchy is far from "standard". BUT and I say this, with all the conviction I have.....WE have messed with this breed to the point that almost all bullies have some joint,eye, ear, skin or allergy issue in its lifetime. Its IS humans who have bred this breed to be dependent on us for procreation. It is humans that keep "toying" with these wonderful creatures to gain a profit and I am beyond sick of it!! I am not against breeders. I AM against people who use these magnificent, loving dogs. I spend my life saving the "throw away" bullies that people create and I am so disappointed that anyone would support anyone who continues to do this irresponsible breeding! If you dont understand what I mean...try volunteering for a bullie rescue or shelter. Many rescue/shelter bullies are not the Hitchy's of the world..they are the ones people pay $3,000+ for then cant care for because of all the issues bullies have. Please think about what you are supporting.
    Yup... what Nikki said!!!
    Ask the experimenters why they experiment on animals, and the answer is: "Because the animals are like us." Ask the experimenters why it is morally okay to experiment on animals, and the answer is: "Because the animals are not like us." Animal experimentation rests on a logical contradiction. ~Charles R. Magel

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    Quote Originally Posted by NikkiSchoolcraft View Post
    I like that everyone on this forum is considerate of others and I love all bullies no matter what their bloodline or "standard" features. My Hitchy is far from "standard". BUT and I say this, with all the conviction I have.....WE have messed with this breed to the point that almost all bullies have some joint,eye, ear, skin or allergy issue in its lifetime. Its IS humans who have bred this breed to be dependent on us for procreation. It is humans that keep "toying" with these wonderful creatures to gain a profit and I am beyond sick of it!! I am not against breeders. I AM against people who use these magnificent, loving dogs. I spend my life saving the "throw away" bullies that people create and I am so disappointed that anyone would support anyone who continues to do this irresponsible breeding! If you dont understand what I mean...try volunteering for a bullie rescue or shelter. Many rescue/shelter bullies are not the Hitchy's of the world..they are the ones people pay $3,000+ for then cant care for because of all the issues bullies have. Please think about what you are supporting.
    You explained it well

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  11. #23

    Default Re: Who really made the first lilac bulldog?

    in my eyes black and white bulldogs look amazing!!! they are so rare and i think they are the coolest looking. but the problem with that is that black and white is very undesirable in the dog show world so you will hardly ever find a black and white bulldog from reputable breeders as they do they're best to breed that color trait out of their dogs.. but after seeing a black and white male in person, i would say screw dog shows and love him just the same

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    Default Re: Who really made the first lilac bulldog?

    Quote Originally Posted by NikkiSchoolcraft View Post
    Im not sure why you are looking at "rare" colors, but please understand that many breeders who breed "out of standard" bullies are also less than reputable. They are often looking to make even more $ on something that is "unusual". A true reputable breeder generally breeds to better the breed and sticks to the standards set for the breed.
    very well stated! Understand, review and stick with the standards.
    B&B~ABEBD

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