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Thread: Free whelping versus c section English Bulldog

  1. #25
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    Default Re: Free whelping versus c section English Bulldog

    Quote Originally Posted by RiiSi View Post
    You wrote earlier that you have so far in 11 years had to have only one c-section. So this was your second. All the others, don't know how many, have been born naturally. That is a great achievement ( unless you've had two litters ). Don't have any regrets, IMO you did the right thing. Do you think breeders that have routine C-sections and loose a puppy or two, think that they will try natural whelping the next time??? This can happen to any dog breed. In finland we're aiming for natural whelping and statistics from even just past five years show that only a little more puppys die at birth, but it also shows that a little less puppys die between birth and one year of age. So you may be saving some other people from heart ache. Mom and the puppys will recover so much quicker from natural whelping. And you know from experience that english bulldogs can do it, so it's only fare to let them try.
    It's the same with neutering and spaying. Here we do it only if medically needed, not just in case. We have no problems with unwanted litters or stray dogs.
    Do you think the litter was just too large and passing the dead baby exhausted her? In your opinion?

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    Default Re: Free whelping versus c section English Bulldog

    -img_0645-jpg
    Makes it all worth it ❤️️ Is there a cuter puppy in the world? Lol. All babies are precious ❤️️

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    Default Re: Free whelping versus c section English Bulldog

    boy what that does for my heart.... so beautiful so precious... and ohhhhhhhhhhh how much I want to hold that /those babies
    Quote Originally Posted by Chellesdiamond View Post
    -img_0645-jpg
    Makes it all worth it ❤️️ Is there a cuter puppy in the world? Lol. All babies are precious ❤️️

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    Default Re: Free whelping versus c section English Bulldog

    Quote Originally Posted by Hankster View Post
    boy what that does for my heart.... so beautiful so precious... and ohhhhhhhhhhh how much I want to hold that /those babies
    They're doing my heart wonders ❤️️ Gods precious gifts ❤️️

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  8. #29
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    Default Re: Free whelping versus c section English Bulldog

    Anybody who is in Colorado is welcome to come snuggle babies ❤️️

  9. #30
    Rescue Volunteer Lalaloopsie's Avatar
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    Default Re: Free whelping versus c section English Bulldog

    There are a lot of possible problems during bullie free whelping. 8 babies in your case is a very generous litter, and uterus in multiple pregnancy is overstretched, therefore during labour it cannot sometimes contract as strong as it is nesessary many times to push each baby out. Also, uterus contractions go like waves, sometimes becoming less active and after several babies It could be just bad luck - big dead baby was coming out when contractions became lesss active.
    You also said, that one dead baby looked strange, I also noticed that one alive pup is two times bigger than other, don't you think that she was inseminated twice and may be conceived twice, with several days span, it can happen, rare, but possible. And then may be this dead baby was due earlier, but because of his location or other reasons, labour didn't start in time for him, but too late and he just died a day or two before all other babies were ready to come out? His placenta started to separate, but no full range labour occurred. So, he suffocated. I remember, that signs of close labour - mucus, etc in Diamond started, then stopped for couple of days.
    Anyway, you did a great job, Diamond is a real hero and best wishes to your bullie and human family! And kisses for those pink little faces!

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  11. #31
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    Default Re: Free whelping versus c section English Bulldog

    Quote Originally Posted by Chellesdiamond View Post
    Thank you!! You all are really helping me feel as if it wasn't my fault!! Giving me peace!! I don't want to be known for being irresponsible, especially when there are little lives trusting my decisions!! Thank you ❤️️
    Quote Originally Posted by Lalaloopsie View Post
    There are a lot of possible problems during bullie free whelping. 8 babies in your case is a very generous litter, and uterus in multiple pregnancy is overstretched, therefore during labour it cannot sometimes contract as strong as it is nesessary many times to push each baby out. Also, uterus contractions go like waves, sometimes becoming less active and after several babies It could be just bad luck - big dead baby was coming out when contractions became lesss active.
    You also said, that one dead baby looked strange, I also noticed that one alive pup is two times bigger than other, don't you think that she was inseminated twice and may be conceived twice, with several days span, it can happen, rare, but possible. And then may be this dead baby was due earlier, but because of his location or other reasons, labour didn't start in time for him, but too late and he just died a day or two before all other babies were ready to come out? His placenta started to separate, but no full range labour occurred. So, he suffocated. I remember, that signs of close labour - mucus, etc in Diamond started, then stopped for couple of days.
    Anyway, you did a great job, Diamond is a real hero and best wishes to your bullie and human family! And kisses for those pink little faces!
    Wow!! I agree with absolutely everything you said!! You are very smart!! Two of the babies are half the size of the others so something definitely happened. She was also showing mild signs, as you mentioned, of possible stage 1 labor for quite a few days so I think the first still born was ready earlier, like you said. I don't know if I'll ever breed her again- I want to because I have a stud from my Bella girl that I'd love to have a baby from my Diamond and my Bella but, I don't want to be selfish and risk her. If by slim chance I decided to I honestly don't know what route I'd take as far as free whelping or elective cesarean section. We have one of the top English Bulldog vets here in Colorado only an hour and a half away from us. Maybe we'll get his opinion. What do you think?

  12. #32
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    Default Re: Free whelping versus c section English Bulldog

    Quote Originally Posted by RiiSi View Post
    So out of 6 litters you have had 4 natural whelpings. Don't question your self that is great result. Yes, some people may think your playing russian roulette, but let them. If you don't want to take any risks, don't breed. C-sections really are not risk free.
    I agree with you @RiiSi 200%!!! @Chellesdiamond, aiming for natural whelping? I would of done the same decision. C-sections are also risk and even for women giving birth. You went to the vet numerous times, asked the right questions, vet followed Diamond pregnancy from the start etc etc....stop questioning yourself. Like I said GOOD JOB GIRL!!!

    You know, people got to stop thinking EB are are doomed as health wise. Yes they might be a bit higher risk for breathing issues but we can't put all EB in the same boat. Tons of EB lives normal lifes if you do the proper maintenance and especially buy "any" dog from reputable breeders you're off to the right start. We are on an EB forum, of course we'll read all sorts of scary stuff, great stuff and even down right funny cracking up stuff. But heh, go on any forum, trust me you will read a lot of unhealthy other breeds. So again @Chellesdiamond great job! That's MY 2 cents, whoever don't like it, c'est la vie!

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    Default Re: Free whelping versus c section English Bulldog

    I think you shouldn't be discouraged with your latest experience, it was just coincidence of some factors which are unlikely you happen again, so, when you are ready I think you can try to get some more of these fluffy balls.
    I also think that if you strongly believe in free whelping and you had 4 perfect ones, you shouldn't be scared to do it again. I am sure that with the help of your vet you can always succeed.
    Personally I am a human doctor, so I believe in medicine and have no problem with CS. I think that most of the risks of SC are very predictable and therefore if they develop, you can address them quickly and effectively. Natural labour risks occur suddenly and not always you know immediately for sure what is wrong, and it takes time sometimes to diagnose and address them, what can cost some baby lives. But, again, it is may be just because I know too much about medicine and always think of possible complications
    Btw, when I had my daughter (she is 13 now), I started to bleed at 8 month pregnant. Doctors tried to keep the pregnancy for 1 day, but it didn't help and they said that we have to deliver her. I used to have very bad eyesight with retina damage, so from the very beginning of my pregnancy I was recommended scheduled CS. But, when that bleeding started and treatment didn't help, doctors told me "ah, baby is just 2 kilos, may be let's go into labour, it will be quick and easy". But I was too scared to lose some more vision, so I chose CS. I was selfish at that moment, frankly speaking. When my girl was delivered, it turned out, that she already suffered for some time from lack of oxygen and tried to breath inside, and aspirated some waters. She had severe pneumonia because of waters inhalation and was on supported breathing for 1 MONTH. Doctors frankly told me - if I chose natural labour, she would be dead in process, or would be born with severe brain damage due to lack of oxygen. Since then I celebrate my bad sight like a gift of destiny that kept my daughter alive and well.
    For me CS worked magic. At the same time, I have huge respect for women and female dogs that give birth naturally and take pride in it. I think that you must first take some rest after your and Diamond's ordeal, and then go with your gut - to breed or not to breed, CS or natural birth.

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    Default Re: Free whelping versus c section English Bulldog

    Also one funny fact. I stay now in China and they have unbelievably high percentage of human CS, I think, one of the highest in the world. Like 70 percent or so. It is partially bcs many Chinese ladies naturally have not very wide hips, but except for this reason, in China they perform CS just upon request. Without medical indications, which is very strange for me. In Europe usually you have to have some medical condition that makes natural birth dangerous, normally you cannot just say "I want CS because I want it". And 2 main reasons for request CS in China are 1) safety of CS versus natural birth for baby and 2) fear of pain. You know, you can have only 2 babies in China, people don't want to take a risk of natural birth (before they were allowed even 1 only!).

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    Default Re: Free whelping versus c section English Bulldog

    I have to say this is madness I have friends with very narrow hips and they have delivered babies without any problems. It's amazing that there is so many chinese people...They didn't just start multiplying by the billions after C-section was invented...


    Quote Originally Posted by Lalaloopsie View Post
    Also one funny fact. I stay now in China and they have unbelievably high percentage of human CS, I think, one of the highest in the world. Like 70 percent or so. It is partially bcs many Chinese ladies naturally have not very wide hips, but except for this reason, in China they perform CS just upon request. Without medical indications, which is very strange for me. In Europe usually you have to have some medical condition that makes natural birth dangerous, normally you cannot just say "I want CS because I want it". And 2 main reasons for request CS in China are 1) safety of CS versus natural birth for baby and 2) fear of pain. You know, you can have only 2 babies in China, people don't want to take a risk of natural birth (before they were allowed even 1 only!).

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    Default Re: Free whelping versus c section English Bulldog

    I was stunned myself with the numbers. But nothing can surprise me in China anymore. This is one big wonderland and not all wonders are amazing...

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