If you breed tri colored female to NOT tri stud what to expect?

[yulia]

Dear bulldog breeders,

We have just purchased a chocolate tri F2 olde English female puppy. She will be our family's only bellowed pet, yet I do plan to responsibly breed her couple of years down the line, 2-3 times total. I feel like if I want to be a responsible breeder, I need to already start my in-depth research into it, so that when time comes I will be as knowledgeable as beginner can possibly be. There is one question that I cannot find an answer to by searching internet and googling, so perhaps someone wouldn't mind sharing their experience and knowledge.

My girl is F2 (meaning her parents are roughly 50% English and 50% olde English bullies). When I decide to breed her, I would like to go with a generational olde stud, which means that many tri colored would be out of the picture, as they are often foundational, too. So my question is this: if I breed a tri colored (tri carrier) female to a NOT tri colored (NOT tri carrier) stud, is there a chance that some pups will be tri colored (tri carriers) anyway? Attached are some photos of the puppy we are about to welcome into our family (I am flying to bring her home on December 3rd!)

Thanks in advance for any input on it.

Regards,
yulia

 

[nycbullymama]

You're speaking a foreign language to me ..lol..

But I tagged a few breeders for you. Maybe they can help.

 

[Davidh]

It is very possible.

 

[yulia]

Thank you, Blueberrys Mom!

It is very possible.

Thanks Davidh! So what do you think could be the chances of getting tri pups from a female (both of her parents are tris) and a male (with NONE of his ancestors are tris)? From your experience, would it be it very unlikely to get tri pups from such a match or is it a very reasonable possibility?

thanks again!!

 

[Davidh]

There is a very good chance you will have black in some or most of the pups, depending on the black gene in the female, as the black gene is a dominate gene. We used to have two Cockers, one blond, one black, she had two litters of 4 pups, and all the pups were black. So you have a good chance of getting tri's. I'm sure that is what you are after, since there are a lot of people wanting to breed blues and tri's so they can charge big bucks for them, because they claim they are "rare". I am a reputable breeder and breed by AKC standard for English and French bulldogs, who get their standards from BCA and FBDCA. I do not agree with, nor do I support breeding for "color", as in blues and tri's. I realize you are breeding Olde English, and the AKC standard does not apply.

 

[ABEBD]

Hello,

The first responsibility of any breeder is to improve the breed, be a steward of the breed, to become educated, and help educate others about the breed. I am also a breeder that just happens to have a female that carried blue dilute, as well as a dominant blue male. But my primary goal is for a healthy, conformationaly correct puppy. There are charts that show the "possibility" expected for breeding certain color genes (alleles) depending of the DNA of the parent that you can research.

Breeding for color should not be the primary reason to breed. The other 90% of what results would end up being throw away for not having the "right" color?

I have no objection to anyone becoming a responsible breeder. There are many reputable breeders that will offer and are willing to help educate. Thank you for saying you plan on doing research to learn more before you decide to breed.

of course this is my opinion.

 

[yulia]

There is a very good chance you will have black in some or most of the pups, depending on the black gene in the female, as the black gene is a dominate gene. We used to have two Cockers, one blond, one black, she had two litters of 4 pups, and all the pups were black. So you have a good chance of getting tri's. I'm sure that is what you are after, since there are a lot of people wanting to breed blues and tri's so they can charge big bucks for them, because they claim they are "rare". I am a reputable breeder and breed by AKC standard for English and French bulldogs, who get their standards from BCA and FBDCA. I do not agree with, nor do I support breeding for "color", as in blues and tri's. I realize you are breeding Olde English, and the AKC standard does not apply.

Hi Davidh,

I want to breed color because I love it, not because of the money. It is a matter of fact, I will always select only per homes or small breeder (who keeps just a very few dogs in their home), and as you know, these are not the kind of clients who pay a good price for a pup, color or no color. Lilac tri does cost more indeed, but I would not want it anyway. As for chocolate tri, I paid just a bit more than the average price for a regular colored puppy. I like chocolate, but just bare chocolate looks a bit too dark for me. So the moment I saw chocolate tri, I knew this was my by faaar favorite color and I honestly never looked back taste-wise.

First and foremost I will be looking for a healthy stud, who had his hips/elbows x-rayed, who can run and jump, can breath well and has a good heat tolerance. Color will be secondary, always. However, now when the pool of color is widening and more and more reputable and trusted breeders work with it, making sure that they still do not compromise health, why not? Chocolate is a natural color and is not in "health risk" category.

Some people do not pay too much attention to the color, for them a dog is a dog and a bulldog is a bulldog. I personally do feel the need to look at my dog and to be in awe of how appealing she looks to me. We all different and there is no right or wrong as long as color breeders remain ethical and refrain from breeding unhealthy dogs and never trade health for color when it is a question of one or the other.

 

[yulia]

Hello,

The first responsibility of any breeder is to improve the breed, be a steward of the breed, to become educated, and help educate others about the breed. I am also a breeder that just happens to have a female that carried blue dilute, as well as a dominant blue male. But my primary goal is for a healthy, conformationaly correct puppy. There are charts that show the "possibility" expected for breeding certain color genes (alleles) depending of the DNA of the parent that you can research.

Breeding for color should not be the primary reason to breed. The other 90% of what results would end up being throw away for not having the "right" color?

I have no objection to anyone becoming a responsible breeder. There are many reputable breeders that will offer and are willing to help educate. Thank you for saying you plan on doing research to learn more before you decide to breed.

of course this is my opinion.

Thank you! I 100% agree. The pool of colored dogs is getting larger among even most reputable breeders. My prediction that it will continue to grow, so those colors will be no longer rare two year down the line, when time comes to breed my girl. If this comes true, I should have no problem finding a generational olde healthy as a horse stud of color. If not, I will always chose health first and would never breed with a stud who has not passed hips/elbows, heart and eyes tests. I also would not breed our girl if she does not pass those tests. Breeding unhealthy dogs create unhealthy pups who are born to suffer and poor owners who has to see this suffering and pay for it a lot of money, too. It is bad all around. I am a person who likes to sleep at night without regret, you know...

 

[ABEBD]

Hello,

Certainly any color combinations that happen in nature are considered normal. Except under certain circumstances such as a "albino lobster" it is generally a mutation. When dogs were "naturally" breeding in the past millennium, the occurrence of what ever color happened to appear, happened. When breeders started taking over the breeding process, "natural selection" was put aside for "desired attributes", thus what has happened to the breed has caused more problems such as health and conformation issues. So while there reputable breeders who are producing selected color puppies, there is STILL a very big concern for the other health and conformation issues associated. I honestly do not think a color breeder would pass up $10-$40K dollars, even if the puppy was not "correct".

I am glad to read your views of getting the tests done before making the decision to breed. There is a chart on the BCA website that lists all of the tests to be considered: brucellosis, HUU, throat (soft or elongated pallet), etc.. along with the test you listed. And you will certainly continue to find great resources, opinions, suggestions, and advice here at EBN.

Good Day~